I’ve received a number of requests in the last few days to address the current situation with YTB International. According to many in the industry, some of the older legacy travel trade publishers are “legitimizing” this company as a travel agency in their editorial pages as well as at their events. This has a lot of agents who are working hard in these difficult times “hopping mad.”

So let’s take a look at this business known as YTB. What is it exactly? It’s a multi-level marketing firm brought to you by the same folks who learned their trade at a business known as A.L. Williams Insurance. For those who have never heard of this insurance company, you’d be wise to steer clear. Their business model is similar to the YTB model in that regardless of what you know, you can be an insurance agent and advise your friends and family across the kitchen table. It’s a scary thought for those who take protecting their loved ones seriously, yet this business has grown and succeeded since the 1970s by capitalizing on ignorance, misplaced trust or a combination of the two.

Indeed, there are many independent insurance sales agents from this organization that have full-time jobs framing houses or doing plumbing like the now famous “Joe the Plumber.” They moonlight and provide insurance “advice” or simply “recruit” others to become “financially independent.” Does this sound familiar?

The YTB business is one where the focus is on recruiting and getting individuals to set up their own “travel store” online, as if customers are suddenly going to appear and start booking thousands of dollars of travel at some no-name website. Indeed, one needs only to look at the compensation earned by these “entrepreneurs” to understand that the only thing being built is the business owned and controlled by the people who actually run YTB and those who buy its over-the-counter stock.

Here’s the “fine print” at the bottom of the YTB 2007 Income Disclosure Statement: “An ‘Active Rep’ is defined as Any Rep who received a check in 2007. The average annual income for all Reps in 2007 was $299.95, and the median annual income for all Reps in 2007 was $97. In 2007, 80.92 percent of all Reps received no income at all. The earnings of the Reps in this chart are not necessarily representative of the income, if any, that a YTB Rep can or will earn through his or her participation in the YTB Compensation Plan. These figures should not be considered as guarantees or projections of your actual earnings or profits. Any representation or guarantee of earnings would be misleading. Success with YTB results only from successful sales efforts, which require hard work, diligence and leadership.”

What’s a bit ironic is how YTB notes that “these figures should not be considered as guarantees or projections of your actual earnings or profits.” They really stepped out on a limb on that one given the fact that the average “earnings” don’t generate enough to pay for the average individual YTB website, the backbone of how this organization actually makes money.

And that leads me to the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and how they view multi-level marketing and network marketing companies like YTB. The FTC advises that multi-level marketing organizations with greater incentives for recruitment than product sales are to be viewed skeptically. The FTC also warns that the practice of getting commissions from recruiting new members is outlawed in most states as “pyramiding” And by the way, YTB is currently still under indictment by the California attorney general.

There are certainly some who have joined YTB with the intent of building a real travel business. I’d encourage those folks to explore the many other host travel agencies that are there to support them and their efforts in actually selling travel. As for those trade publications that believe businesses like YTB are real travel agencies, I’d like to suggest they reexamine the travel agency market and the truly professional agents that are part of it.

Reader Comments

So let's not dance around the issue, Mark. Should "the older legacy travel trade publishers" be giving YTB a platform on which to proselytise?Ann, MI

It's refreshing that Mark has seen YTB for what it truly is. It is disheartening to see other traade publications such as Travel Weekly continue to lend credibility to an organization that is an embarrasmenr to the travel industry. Erik van Voorhees SeaMaster CruisesErik, PA

You only discussed YTB Reps.The Income Disclosure Statement to which you referred is for the sale of Travel websites, by REPS. You did not discuss anything about YTB TRAVEL. That is a totally different company that books travel online. YTB makes it clear that there are 2 different business' here. You choose to only discuss the marketing business. Let's talk about YTB TRAVEL.William, AL

Al, stop drinking the Kool Aid. The 2 companies are intertwined. Look at the SEC filings. Thank you Mark for a well written article and your support! MaryMary, OH

There are some YTB agents who actually sell some travel. I hope they read this article and find a legimate host to work with. As for the 80% that are in it for the benefits and sell nothing, I look forward to the new CLIA requirements to eventually eliminate them. What I find distasteful is when a herd of them show up at a FAM or a special event and party it up without concern for the training and learning taking place. It is distracting and lowers the image of those of us that are legitimately present. Mark, ready for an Amway home party? Ron, FL

Mark, I find your article content flawed. You say that the only people who make money are the ones who put in the effort and work hard. Isn't like any other business? As far as the stock goes I don't anyone is making money on that. Do you even look at it? Michael, MAMichael, MA

The biggest laugh I have had in a long time is when a "YTB Rep" came into my agency and tried to convince me of the "benefits" of becoming a YTB Rep under them! Initially I was patient and tried to explain the folly of their program and the significant reduction in commissions. The response was, "I was told to recruit existing travel agencies into my team." Good luck with that! Mike, MIMichael, MI

Please read the article...the quote about making money is from the YTB disclosure and is in their words...hence the quotes. As for YTB Travel, it's a travel 'club' that touts perks vs. a professional approach to actually building a business. Mark, NJ

A friend of mine works for another company owned by the people behind yTB - that company sells utilities for less. I mentioned that I had not seen any real "training" in YTB, and she gave me a name and number so that I with years of experience, could offer to build a training program. They wanted me to join YTB. OMG... Mary, FLMary Allan, FL

Hear Hear! If you're a real travel agent, go to a different host and not a pyramid scheme company!Loretta, IL

William, AL wants to talk about YTB Travel ... ok, YTB travel makes up less than 20% of YTB's overall income ... their aren't a travel agency (where their MAIN focus would be selling travel), they are a website sales company or a recruiting company (where their main focus is selling websites and recruiting more RTAs). Susan, TN

I am sad that some of my friends have been bamboozled into thinking this is legitimate. After all the scams we have withstood over the years I can hardly believe they would fall for it anymore than they did the Florida scams and the Nirobi scams. The word professional carries a lot of weight and knowledge is golden. A house of straw will now stand in the wind. True Travel Professionals will survive this one too. PAT/STLpatricia, MO

It’s really disheartened to hear you naysayer’s talk about a company that you only read about in the media. Lets get one thing straight YTB is a legitimate travel company and for those of you who call himself or herself “real travel agent” need to think again. YTB offers alot of training to become a bonefide travel agent; they offer the CLIA training, which they are a member. Needless to mention YTB is powered by a reputable travel engine that everybody in the world uses, take a guess.... TRAVELOCITY. YTB is not a pyramid because pyramids are illegal; the SEC would not have allowed a company such as YTB to have their own stock exchange if they were a pyramid. The SEC is a government agency that will scrutinize any business that is performing illegal business. YTB is a legitimate company that is also affiliated with the DSA. Why don't anyone talk about Donald Trump and his travel business, it cost well over $1,000.00 to be a travel agent with his company or TRAVERUS Travel who is strictly a pyramid scheme. YTB sells a product and that product is TRAVEL. That's what a pyramid is a company that lives on recruiting and not a product, come on people do your research before making accusations. So if its money the issue, YTB has made it affordable for those who want to own a franchise business as a travel agent. Yes, being a travel agent is costly ask any "real travel agent" how they had to pay out of their pockets to get certified versus a YTB travel agent who would have paid half of that. Yes I am a member with YTB and am proud of it. It takes time, effort and diligence to build any type of business. A.L.Williams, PriMerica, and Amway everybody and their mama have been apart of this organization in some point of their life. Williams, GA Angeli, GA

Thank you, Angeli, for making our point.Ann, MI

YTB is currently under investigation by the attorney general in Ill. FL,and LA. They have also been served with a 25million dollar lawsuit by the state of CA for being an illegal pyramid scheme. There are two class action suits pending, and over 90 complaints against them with the BBB in Ill. Anyone who thinks that YTB doesn't have some serious integrity issues is sadly mistaken. YTB is not a travel agency. They are an mlm who had to finally add some training to try to get out of trouble with the CA Ag. If you are serious about a career in travel, then you need to get out of YTB. Laura, OH

Is it surprising that 80% of the Reps didn't make any money in 2007? In any business roughly 20% make money while 80% don't take the steps necessary to become successful. The new CLIA requirements will encourage YTB Reps and "real" travel agents to become more educated, a blessed event for the travel industry. Joan, CaliforniaJoan, IL

Mark, Can you confirmed that A.L Williams was sold to PrimAmerica. I was really surprised that you did not accurately researched for your article. In the world of journalism this can dangerous. I respect you opinions, but in the future , please report accurately, so that your readers received valid data.Kimberly, MD

Angeli - Amen to your comment!!! For all of the YTB members - Don't listen to all these naysayers. Angeli - see you at next year's convention.Manny, CA

I'm surprised at the amount of misinformation out their about this company. As the founder of one of the largest independently owned mortgage companies in the country (yes we're still in business), believe me when I say I did my due diligence before I joined YTB. As with anything worth while, you have to actually work if you want to earn a living doing doing it. The group that I belong to averages 5-10 hours of travel education every single week. Obviously, not everyone does this, but anyone who is serious about their business should be investing time into their future. And, the answer is yes, I sell travel.Jerry, WA

Correction:Mark, Can you confirm that A.L Williams was sold to Primerica. I was really surprise that you did not accurately research for your article. In the world of journalism this can dangerous. I respect your opinions, but in the future , please report accurately, so that your readers receive valid data. Serves 6 million clients in the U.S., Canada, Puerto Rico and Spain More than 100,000 licensed representatives More than 25,000 licensed mutual fund representatives — the largest sales force in North America Securities clients have nearly $40 billion in assets under management through Primerica Placed in force more than $90 billion in life insurance in 2007 An average of $2 million in death claim benefits is paid every day Paid out $682 million in compensation in 2007 A member of Citigroup, the world’s largest financial services company Kimberly, MD

Well written article today, Mark. Thanks for your continued and unwavering support of “real travel agents.”Ben, TX

Re: lawsuits Anybody ever hear about a little company called Microsoft? In our society, a lawsuit is an indication of nothing. Re: BBB complaints Did the author look into the number of complaints against Expedia, Orbits, Travelocity and quote those numbers? Gee, how convienent! As a YTB Referring Travel Agent I value this magazine but it's blatant bias is beginning to wear thin. There are too many other resources available. What company can afford to lose 113,00+ clients in this economy? Let's see some balance or I'm 'outa here!Marcus, NV

Correction: 113,000+ clientsMarcus, NV

What is unfortunate is that there are some very good YTB agents who work hard. It is the vast majority that are in it just for the industry discounts that will continue to give YTB a bad name and hurt the good agents. I know many destinations that no longer accept YTB agents on FAMs or other programs because they have had too many complaints by the hotels, restaurants, etc. who go back and try to qualify the business and find out from the agents that they were only looking for a quick vacation. If YTB wants to become a powerhouse in the travel world, they need more restrictions and rules and choose their agents wisely. Otherwise, they will never have the respect and the serious agents should move to a better solution.Kim, LA

I disagree with you Mark. I am NOT nor will I be a YTB member but mlm is a very legitimate marketing system. If I were a supplier I would welcome them with open arms. They are one of the largest companies out there in terms of sales volume. I think RCL made a big mistake by turning away all of their volume. How can you say it doesn't work? I guess we would still be driving horse and buggies and watch tv by candlight because you won't change with the times. Just because it's different doesn't mean it's wrong. Jerry, ACCJerry, FL

I want to join YTB how do I join? Sound like a great opportunity.HLHerb, FL

I encourage everyone to visit the following site to review the facts regarding YTB www.TheFactsAboutYTB.net The RTAs, all 130K of them have essentially self dealt and been granted a discount on their retail travel. It is the suppliers decision to honor that. But professional agents do not need to take it and have the public lump us in with the RTAs as professionals. RTAs receive all benefits not by training but by paying! CLIA made a very weak step in the right direction. However there is a loophole that still allows any member of YTB to (or any MLM) to get a CLIA credential and at the present YTB's Reps and RTAs is exploiting it to their downlines in hopes of convincing them to continue with the program. The average RTA made $94 last year. The average Rep earned $89. So for an average investment of over $1000 you all feel $200 is a good ROI? Mark, please keep up the good work and the pressure on YTB and the others that surely will follow. For another interesting perspective, please read this editorial: http://www.travelresearchonline.com/blog/index.php/2008/11/travel-weekly-and-the-paradigm-of-annoyance/John, MD

Okay... I'm a YTB agent and I've been in the business for a little over a year. The "legimiate travel agents" keep talking about the "freebies" in the travel industry . . . that's what I'm looking for and for the life of me I haven't found them yet! All the YTB agent I know must work very hard for any courtesies given to them, and this includes the sell of travel and training . . . so come on get over it all ready stop being so judgemental and prejudiced . . . there is a new kid on the block and he is here to stay!Allene, CA

I welcome the discussion since there are many sides to this story. Suppliers can certainly accept the business, just as they do from Expedia or Travelocity. Just don't treat a guy who sells mortgages and 'refers' business to his friends as a travel professional. There is a difference, which is seemingly getting lost here. MLM is a legitimate direct business model when it involves the exchange of goods/services. The FTC clearly states that a business model focused on recruiting and selling memberships, or in this case websites, is problematic. The legal action taken is not a lawsuit by some individual or competitor, but by the Attorney General of the state of California. Mark, NJ

Kimberly -- Tell me about the great Citigroup NOW. AL AZAL, AZ

Having once been with YTB, I met some wonderful people, no doubt. But their 1st emphasis is marketing (not my bag) - to recruit other members under you so you and upper YTB members can benefit from a percentage of the profits. The 2nd emphasis is selling travel - the reason I joined. I was with an airline for 15 years and had travel business knowledge, so I was surprised after I joined to learn that most YTB members don't have a clue about selling travel, and that an hour, or day, or even a weekend of travel education does not prepare you for selling travel and being profitable at it. FAMs were a big come-on, and YTB people do travel - most members are seniors. Within a year of joining YTB, I searched and found a home-based agency that paid me 90% instead of YTB's 60% commission. It really made a difference in income, so leaving YTB was a no-brainer for me. What a letdown when you only get 60% after all the hard work on a booking. If you're with YTB, and travel is your niche, search out a company that pays well (like Nexion) and has a good support system - an agency that's there 'right now' for answers to your questions. You won't be sorry you made the change.Gloria, MO

AL, AZ- I hope you do not have any clients that work for Citigroup or any of its brand companies, because your Citigroup commment is very insensitive. Please remember that these difficulty econonmic times impact our Travel business as well as our clients. Kimberly, MD

I just read your President’s Letter published today in Travel Pulse and I would like to applaud you for your candor and honesty. More industry leaders need to do the same. Don’t sling mud, just present the facts and let them speak for themselves. Thank you Kelley, NMKelley, SC

Thank you Angeli for setting the record straight! Of course, there will always be negative-minded folks out there. Your commentary was well-written and backed by sound information. I am also a YTB member and proud to say so. Vince, CTSamuel Vincent, CT

Hello I would like to address Ms. Angeli in GA. Have you really look at Traveus or just going what someone said? We are not a pyramid scheme. Maybe you are talking about corp america. I would like to thank Travel Pulse for keeping it real. Linda, PALinda, PA

One commenter said that Traverus Travel is strictly an MLM/pyramid then why did the top earner in the company last month make their money from travel commissions and why is my wife a Certified Travel Agent with the training and testing behind her.Hazel Barr, FL

YTB Score Card: IATA terminates relationship with YTB RCL terminates relationship with YTB YTB finds loopholes in CLIA's photo ID card program Prominent attorney, John Simmons, quits YTB board Insider deals at YTB raises questions, concerns Michael Brent, former YTB CEO selling off his stock YTB lays off 25 employees The Street Downgraded YTBLA SELL YTB International Reports Net Loss for 2nd and 3rd quarters. State of Illinois proposes to work with California in YTB case YTB, Executives Sued in Federal Court in Illinois Illinois Attorney General's office is investigating YTB BBB received 90 complaints about YTB Calif. AG sues YTB Your Travel Biz over alleged pyramid scheme 2-Class Action Lawsuits against YTB. Florida AG looking into YTB activities Meridian Bank ordered to cease and desist and taken over by Feds for among other things questionable loans to YTB. Burt Saunders, board member and FL State Senator loses bid for reelection because of his ties to YTB. YTB selling off jet and property at a loss. Stock down to .2750 yesterday. Mary, OH

Mary your points are good but your presentation is AWFUL. You cannot call yoursef a professional with writing like that! You give Travel Agents just as bad of a name as any YTB Agnet!Margaret, NY

I just sent a long piece about Mark Murphy and his previous affiiliation with YTB, and surprise, it didn't get posted. PLease post my comments!!! Kim, COKim, IL

To Kimberly from MD...the idea of a network/multi level marketing firm to sell financial products is the issue, not the company that purchased them during an acquisition spree. That happens to be the issue that was addressed and it relates to the backgrounds of the individuals behind this organization. It is important for people to understand the background of those involved to develop a better understanding of their business methods and tactics...regardless of what you ultimately conclude about the YTB business itself.Mark, NJ

"Mary your points are good but your presentation is AWFUL. You cannot call yoursef a professional with writing like that! You give Travel Agents just as bad of a name as any YTB Agnet!?" Your comments are unfounded. I had my post with bullet points and when I clicked submit this is what happened. Focus on the real issue here and not someone's writing.Mary, OH

Incidentally 1 you spelled agent wrong!Mary, OH

Vince from CT, why does it say Samuel from CT beneath your name? Identity crisis?

The travel industry needs to police itself and not let this continue to happen. We need some standardized training and a demonstration of commitment to the industry--not a commitment to the perks and discounts.

Mark mentioned the background of the YTB leaders. Not ONE of them has ANY travel experience at all. No one on their Board has any either. They have plenty of experience in scams and MLM.

Travel is an attempt to mask the illegality of the pyramid scheme and this attempt has not fooled the AG in California and it is not going unnoticed by several others. You can take that to the bank. Just not Meridien Bank because they are in receivership partly due to the bad deals they made with YTB.

The Facts About YTB is a good place to see a lot of info on the company and it's leadership and it's future. John, MD

When comparing this company to a traditional travel agency, of course it's going to look a lot different. I think it would be more appropriate to compare it to other MLM companies. For those who have accepted the business model of network marketing, this is a good business. For those who believe that any and all network marketing businesses are scams, then they're better off working for someone else, or working themselves to death with a business from they started from scratch. I'm not saying that YTB is infallible, but I wonder what network marketing company doesn't pay larger incentives for recruiting new members than the sale of their product. It has always been my understanding that this is a given with MLM. I also wonder how they became publicly traded if their business model was a pyramid scheme. Doesn't the SEC scrutinize their financial documents for a couple years before being approved? I could be wrong... By the way, what about the franchise model? YTB will be adopting this model next year I believe, can anyone still argue "pyramid scheme"?Laura, NV

just want to make sure I understand the problem here. Does anyone have a problem if instead of letting Expedia take the money when I book a vacation online, I book it through my own travel "gateway to the vendors" and keep the commission myself? Is there a problem if my friends and family book through my site to help me out? I believe that traditional travel agents are worth every penny when it comes to booking something more complicated like a cruise package or a group tour, for that, even I, as an RTA would go to an agency. If the problem is that YTB RTA's call themselves "travel agents" why is that an issue with the company? That isn't even the case anymore, RTA now stands for Referring Travel Associate. Does this silence any complaints? YTB doesn't want people going on FAM trips who aren't working a travel business selling travel, just like the traditional agents. Laura, NV

Laura, NV - regarding your "YTB doesn't want people going on FAM trips who aren't working a travel business selling travel, just like the traditional agents." I have to say it's not true, because at every meeting I attended, there was a guy there with all the FAMs available to anyone there, and that they were eligible to take them. Most YTB people do NOT sell travel. Gloria, MO

Hi Gloria, I agree with you that there are plenty of people out there selling this business citing the FAM trip benefits. However, in all of the training that YTB provides, nowhere does it put any emphasis on these benefits short of doing the work of a travel professional.Laura, NV

What exactly is "selling travel"? Can it be passive like just asking someone to book on your site? If that is the case, then I think there are many YTB RTA's "selling travel". I definitely agree though that most RTA's don't work a travel business. I know many people who are frequent travelers and got in this business not for the FAM's but for the commission that they were losing to the other online agencies.Laura, NV

But Laura, YTB opens it up to everyone - there are no restrictions, and that's why the hard-working TAs of this world are so upset - YTB people don't have to work for the benefits. They are given a card which makes them look like bonafide TAs, and that's simply not fair. I was with YTB for a short time, and I know how they work. I would rather work honestly for the benefits I get back.Gloria, MO

Knowing some history about YTB might make for more informed comments. YTB did not "go" public. Their "public" status was a result of a reverse merger with an existing company that DID go through all the scrutiny. It needs to be noted that shortly after YTB took over control, they were delisted from the OTC for irregular accounting practices and just regained their status on the OTC a few months ago.

RTA does NOT stand for Referring Travel Associate. It stood for Referring Travel Agent and when the industry cried foul, YTB changed it to Referring Travel Affiliate. However, if you pay YTB $149 and watch a webinar called First Class Training, you can lose that moniker.

The main issues are that the RTAs are expressing themselves to the public and industry as being travel agents and they are not. When a consumer purchases a trip they expect a level of professionalism and experience and it is not present in YTB. YTB does not have any support for customers--their solution is to call the vendor--and they list the vendor's travel agent (not public) phone number to do so. Vendors pay agents to handle some of the work in a travel transaction and they are compensated for it. This is what the RTAs seems to not understand.

Another issue is that the program is designed to fail. People will say that the people fail, but then why are they joining a program with such a high failure rate? Why is it that out of the 303,000 Reps and 138,000 RTAs only 163 of them made more than $20,000 in 2007?John, MD

Hi Mark, I have a question for those of you at TravelPulse/Performance Media Group. How many YTB agents are registered for you newsletter and how many have attended your virtual events? You have made several blanket statements about the lack of professionalism and knowledge we YTB agents have so I'm curious to know how many are actively supporting your online communication channel.Allene, CA

Good job Mark! I'd love to see this information all over mainstream media. I've got 21 years experience as an agent and became independent a few years ago. My former employer is now my host agency. I advertise, maintain credentials and have clients from when I first became a travel agent. With card mills and pyramid schemes those of us who are true professionals, selling travel as our income, are often looked at with skeptism because pseudo travel agents with dreams of free travel are everywhere. Thanks for spreading the word.Susan, OR

Just read Angeli's note. Ann of MI. You're right. She's definitely enhanced our point.Susan, OR

Please, I can't stop laughing. Oh No, Not again, I'm still laughing.Dennis, FL

Herb of FL, if you are interested in YTB you are free to visit www.ytb.com/fortevacations. Before I joined YTB, trust me I did my research I read all the negatives and the positives and needless to say the positives outwayed the bad. YTB is open to any investigation you need to know about the company. I have been in other MLM and by far YTB Travel is the best.Angeli, GA

Angeli--you may have done some due diligence when you joined, but if you were joining now, would you?

RE Traversus, the ONLY reason they are not feeling the heat is because YTB is public and more of their information is available. YTB and Traversus are cut from the same cloth, but I think with the addition of the potions and lotions, Traversus may have a legal step up on YTB. Another thing, your wife is not a Certified Travel Agent and I am shocked that the Travel Institute has not sued David Manning for using the acronym CTA in their marketing programs.

The Truth About YTB check out the siteJohn, MD

Hi Susan, OR. I love talking to agents with the type of experience you have. Twenty-one years in the business, why would anyone look at you with skeptism? One question . . . when you started 21 years ago, how did you start? Anyone that has been in the business that long must love what they do and started somewhere. Just like us YTBer's we have to start somewhere.Allene, CA

Responding to Linda in PA, yes I have looked at Traverus I was offered to join while looking at YTB and I found Traverus to be a complete pyramid, you base your income on recruiting individuals to your team which is about $50, and working from something called "spill-over"? So go figure. There was not alot to find on Traverus like the information I found for YTB. Traverus is not a member of the SEC, Why? Any company or MLM I find that’s apart of the SEC (who diligently scrutinize companies of their ethical behavior) I would say that company is very reputable. Another thing look at all the corporations we work for in this time, if you look at the structure of any company you will find that they are mlm, are you the CEO, or the President, no we are way below on the triangle.Angeli, GA

Hi John, MD, thank you for correcting me on the new RTA definition. As far as the "going" public, all I really know is that they didn't sneak their way into the stock exchange. I can't argue with the unprofessionalism displayed by some of the YTB RTA's when presenting this business opportunity. But the same can be said of true "professional" agents who childishly make fun of others. I personally didn't join this business to sell travel or for the MLM opportunity. I saw a chance to keep more of my money that was previously going to Expedia. For that purpose, this site suits my needs very well. I don't believe in defending the company regardless of any legitmate issues that have been brought up but I feel that to characterize every RTA as a lazy opportunity seeker is inappropriate. I personally hope that YTB changes the things that are causing problems such as giving credentials to RTA's upon joining. I believe that will change when they go forward with the franchise model. I also feel that this product could actually help existing professional travel agents. I didn't do any extensive research but I did look into some hosting companies a while back. Those that I researched offered sites that weren't very user-friendly. I have to wonder if agents using sites like the ones I saw are losing business to Expedia and the like. I certainly don't know everything about travel and don't desire to. I will leave the professional planning to the professionals. I just have to say that it's unfortunate how emotional people get on both sides of this issue. I don't think it's as black and white as some would like to present it.Laura, NV

I think the main point is why join an organization that takes such a massive part of the commissions when you can join one that gives you either 90% or 100%? That's just not a smart business decision, when the outgoing costs are about the same every month. And why use the same website as everyone else at YTB? Do you really think that will drive people to purchase travel from your site? Marilyn, CA

I have been a professional travel consultant and an agency owner for 30 years. I pride myself on my knowledge and attention to detail. Within the last 2 months I have encountered at least 2 dozen YTB agents at travel industry events, on the rail line to the airport,just about everywhere. Those whom I have met seem utterly clueless about what is takes to plan a trip for anyone. I am the President of a national travel organization for the Southeast. I have made it a point to invite every YTB agent to join our organization and participate in our educational programs. NOT ONE has availed themselves of my invitation which was sincerely offered. They seem to think that there is an easy way to make some money in this business. There has never been an easy way - not ever. So I think they have been sold a bill of goods. It was no surprise to me when I met a a lady on the commuter train who told me she was a "travel agent". Then she turned around to face me and the 6inch diameter button read "Ask me how you can have your next vacation for free". That's the hook. Everyone wants to travl and no one wants to pay for it. Well me, too. But that is happening now or anytime soon. YTB is a blood sucker on minorities who are looking for extra income or for a free way to travel. That is what I have seen almost 100% of the time.janet, GA

Dont listen to the naysayers Thats really great advise Would you give that advise to the Police when someone claims to be raped. Maybe Hitler didn't really kill all those Jews. If you want my prediction go to www.wherearecoachscottandkim.comMike, NY

John, MD you gave the wrong website. The real website is http://thefactsaboutytb.com your .net site looks like a violation of Copyright infringement according to Dozier Internet Law. You appear to be intentionally re-directing readers to the wrong website for the purpose of Online Defamation... The Lawyers are gonna love this one...William, AL

To the woman who suggested that people need to start somewhere. I completely agree. But what happened to the concept of either starting a business or joining a business and learning the ropes? When did "paying for a credential card" become the preferred entree into an industry? If the YTB or any MLM training is on par with the TTA training, why are they reinventing the wheel--why not just require their members to take the TAP test or enroll in The Travel Institute or enroll in the CLIA programs? Maybe it is because the training is not quite up to par, and because they can charge agents for it.

Not all RTAs are bad by any means. Many are interested in selling travel and many are moving to a more legitimate host. I applaud those that have come to understand the concept.

I am not re-directing anyone. Just as YTB is encouraging people to visit their site to hear their side of the story, I am encouraging people to a blog located at http://notravelmlms.blogspot.com to hear an opposing viewpoint. You are OK with opposing viewpoints, right?John, MD

John, I looked at your blog... WOW!!! You have quite a PASSION for YTB. I cant help but wonder what a person with your Passion and Devotion could ACTUALLY accomplish if you were to use you abilities CONSTRUCTIVELY... Have a BLESSED Day! William, AL

To ALL YTB Travel/RTA’s ~ What do you think qualifies you as a “bona fide” travel agent? Have you worked for 1 year and made a minimum of $5,000 in commissions? NO? Well that’s what IATA requires before you are eligible to travel at any reduced rate. Have you been on an educational FAM, and participated in every minute of what is expected? Have you been courteous to your Hosts on the FAM? Have you broken the rule of code and told EVERYONE how much you pay for reduced travel and/or FAMS? Can you decipher every code on an E-ticket? Have you purchased your E & O insurance? Anyone can sit at their computer and take the online Specialist courses. That doesn’t qualify you as a travel agent. When you can answer YES to every question, that’s when I will be happy to call you a “bona fide travel agent”. Until then, wake up & smell the profit you were promised! You are part of a MLM. Debbie, NJ Debra, NJ

Wow, what great responses. Mark you should be ashamed. When did you become a travel agent? How did you get your training? Who helped you? What are your designations (CTC ACC, MCC Etc.) ? What was your past affiliation with YTB? Were you the one that screwed up the Virtual Travel Trade Show that we all waited for, only to have it canceled because it didn't work? I work hard, I belong to 5 host agencies, and YTB has been a delight to be in business with. Booking group cruises is my specialty and YTB offers a great vehicle with ease and accuracy. Other host (Legitimate Travel Agencies?) I belong to offer very little training, no leads and very few fam perks come my way from them. They are all beneficial to me as each has a special niche. I like being a travel agent. Oh, and by the way, I go to a lot of training including the upcoming Luxury & Home Based business trade show in Las Vegas. Will you be there? My experience is that more and more YTB agents are attending these and other trainings, including CLIAs. Ask them what they are seeing at their sessions. YTB agents are going in groves and are getting certified. Enjoy your free forum from Travel Weekly but be a little more sensible. Please! DaveDave, CA

Debra NJ, Just saw this. YTB covers you for E&O. Yes, many of us have made more than $5,000 commission, and lots more. And IATA is not neccessary to conduct business or get FAM trips. Yes, I have taken many seminars at sea,just got back from Mexico Riviera 7 day and learned a lot. Do you enjoy learning codes? Were you able to say yes to all of your questions the day you got into the travel business? I doubt it, so what a great place for a beginner to start and learn and grow. Who knows, maybe someday all the YTB agents will be just like you.Dave, CA

Wow, people are certainly buzzing about this YTB stuff. I left YTB and defected to a real host agency with very good commissions. The thing that puzzles me is that Carnival seems to love and endorse them. In fact YTB is having their 2nd Annual Carnival event sale. YTB seems to just keep rolling along. What gives? Daniel Daniel, NH

The E&O insurance YTB provides is STRICTLY for bookings made by the consumer on your replicated site. Once an RTA puts their hand in the transaction, they are required (by common sense and good business practices) to have their own E&O. There are a LOT of people in YTB that are serious about selling travel. The unfortunate part is that there are far more that are not and THOSE are the people that are bringing down the organization. You know the ones that showed up at the ASTA show last year in the green t-shirts. The one's that get a FAM and then try to bring their family. The ones that make all sorts of outlandish claims. Those are the people hurting YTB. And what is more amazing is that YTB has so little respect for itself and it's brand that it allows this type of behavior to continue. However, more likely than not, this behavior results in recruiting and sales of websites and as the SEC filings indicate, recruiting is 80%+ of the revenue and travel is an afterthought. YTB probably looks the other way because a recruit is a recruit no matter how it is attained. Daniel--Carnival is indeed puzzling as are the other suppliers. Most will not go on the record and praise YTB and most will not go on the record and scorn them as Arnie Weissmann found out. I suspect that with CCL the beancounters have taken over corporate right now and as long as YTB can produce a sale, they will take their money. And YTB is a great seller of Carnival cruises for sure. However, when you look at it and compare it to the size of their sales force, it becomes evident that the cruises booked are for the most part for themselves. So in effect, CCL is allowing consumers to rebate or discount their product by 16%. Hey it is their ship and their decision! John, MD

Thank you, thank you Mark! I appreciate the facts that are stated in your article. As an agent who has been in the business for 14 years and now owns and operates her own host-free agency, I am disgusted with the conduct of those YTB agents. I really believe that the way to success in this business is knowledge and experience. If YTB-ers are confused on where to start - get certified! Become a CTA, CTC, ACC, etc. Learn something. Travel (not on free-bees) and do site inspections. Take a cruise so maybe you'll know the difference between Carnival and Crystal. Learn some airport codes and learn the definition of PFC's. Know your cities! Don't attend industry functions and complain because you can't travel for free or the food isn't gormet. You are there to learn and meet other hard working agents. When you sell travel, you CAN travel. It's that simple. You cannot blame travel agents for coming down hard on the YTB program and it's "agents". Realize that we have to work that much harder to undo the damage that has been done to the traveling public not just by you but by the other online travel companies that do not offer proper support. When you train like we train, travel like we travel, and sell like we sell, then all will be okay. Start small and you'll get far. But don't expect something for nothing! Act like a travel agent and you'll be respected like one! I promise!Kristen, NY

Most people don't make money when they start a business for the first two years. I have not made the money I would like yet because I am putting my brand name out there and it takes time for people to know you have a travel agency. Your customers will come. In the mean time I talk about the travel website. And I get a good business tax write off. So I really don't care that I have not made any money on the travel side as of yet because it is coming I just booked some trips for friends. And they gave me a A plus for the accommodations. And they will tell their friends and so on. So stop reading a sheet about how much someone made. You are not disclosing how much you make or how your business is going. We have to because of the marketing side of the business because ultimately it is your decision to come into the business or not. If you don't like it don't do it. If you love it do it. Stop listening to these fools they are on a mission to try to save their businesses. And YTB is on a mission to becoming the number one travel agency. So we are both on a mission. Anyway if I did not have YTB I would be going to travelocity or hotwire anyway I never used a travel agency for a vacation. I am not paying extra fees when I can do it myself. Now with my travel website I can book my own trip and get the commission. What a bad business I am in it is terrible that I can make money for doing the same thing I would have done anyway. Need a trip go to www.urbancitytravel.com We are the best looking travel website out there. Sorry guys. You will be alright soon as you stop turning green with envy.danielle, MD

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The Case of YTB

By Mark Murphy

Published on: November 25, 2008

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