I think this is a very sad choice for NCL to do this. There are many of us who are in business to SELL TRAVEL and only sell travel and have spent many hours in webinars, classes, trainings to know the product we love to sell! Just had a couple leave this weekend on NCL and are among the many who were booking through me for groups as well. I am sure Carnival,Costa or Disney will be happy to book the 20+ cabins I need! S.J. Spring HillShandelle, FL

YTB is a sinking ship - don't be dumb like alot of Joystar agents and be loyal - move to another host agency (a real host, not a MLM) and get your bookings transferred - you'll be glad you did when YTB goes under and have agent's commissions........hopefully not yours if you are smart now! Look what happened to all the "loyal" Joystar agents who are out thousands and thousands of commission dollars - this is not a time for pride or principle - it's a time to look out for your own business, finances, and clients....Jeannie, MD

Yes, taking heed of the Joystar agent's mistakes might be a wise move at this point. But Shandelle, why not look at this as a plus. Now that your YTB cruise product is essentially limited to Carnival (very little HAL, Seabourn, Costa, Cunard, or Princess is sold by YTB)why not consider associating with a legitimate host and a company that is REALLY in it for travel and not the latest money grab? Take the information that you have absorbed in your tenure and move on to a bigger and better opportunity. One that does not require you to recruit every person in a three foot range of you. If you are interested in travel, this should be a no-brainer, but if not, well then, good luck. If anyone is interested in following the saga of MLM and the travel industry, please check out the blog: http://notravelmlms.blogspot.comJohn, MD

Ditto what John, MD said. If you are serious about being a legitimate travel agent, dump these fraudulent companies & look at affiliating with a legitimate Host Agency. Otherwise, look at another business. Cindy, CAC'Ana, CA

I find it surprising that there is so much vindictiveness aimed at YTB and those who sell bookings through it. Perhaps in the US it is easy to find a host agency that doesn't expect a home-based agent to sit in an office all day and do bookings through Sabre etc as is the case here in Canada. Lucky you! As for NCL, it is hard to understand why a company would want to turn down legitimate bookings. WALT, ONWalter,

I'm right here in the middle of this conversation. There is much vindictiveness towards YTB, some justified and some not. It's hard to believe there's not an agency in Canada that will allow you to work at your pace. I believe the days of the travel MLM are just about over. So if you like booking travel, it makes sense to move to another host. I know about this also because I took the plunge. I love YTB because it gave me a start in the travel industry. I've said this before and was told there were plenty of hosts out there that would have nurtured that love. But I did not KNOW I loved travel until I became a part of YTB. But I decided to move all of my bookings to another host because I don't want to get caught like many Joystar agents. As much as I loved YTB, my love to pay my bills is stronger. PLEASE save yourself.Denyse, NJ

Walt, unfortunately for you, Canada has requirements to be a travel agent. In the US there is none and hence the presence of the MLM/Card Mill/Pyramid programs.

YTB exists to recruit--period. They utilize travel as a means to that end.

You are in Ontario. When they expanded into Canada, they did not play by the rules and were refused a license until they purchased a physical agency in Ontario (TICO Rules)--hence Sunrise Travel.

I do not know, but I imagine there are far less travel scams in Canada because of the licensing requirements.

Out of curiosity, what experience do you have (or have you gained) to qualify as a RTA in Canada?

Yes, I am anti MLM and not apologetic for it in the least. I am protective of my industry and what I have worked for for the past 12 years.

If you are interested in my blog, please visit it at:
MLMs and Travel: A Bad Mix John, MD

So, tell me. Where can a YTB Agent go that does not cost $50 month and will allow me to book a little travel on a part-time basis?Gloria, IL

Outside Agents is one host that I know has taken several YTB RTAs in the past few weeks.John, MD

Kudos to NCL for taking that step, now if only Carnival would get smart and do the same!! Penny, Palm Harborpenny , FL

Outside Agents has NO start-up fees and NO monthly fees. The training provided is awesome. I'm on a webinar right now with the owners.Denyse, NJ

They also provide a free consumer website.Denyse, NJ

Why don't one of you YTB agents share with the rest of us what it cost you to become a co-called "travel agent" and how many other people you were pressured into signing up? YTB is a MLM ... period! I have attended a "sales presentation" for YTB given by new neighbors only they told everyone is was a "get to know you BBQ" until they pounced. You want to sell travel? Go to school, take the classes, get experienced and go to work for a travel agency or work through a host agency. Only THEN are you a true travel agent. I applaud each vendor for dropping its association with YTB. Karen, CO

I actually have taken classes and webinars for almost all of the cruiselines and have countless hours in for many hotels as well, to educate myself on the product I sell to my customer. I have not pressured anyone to sign up, I could not be bothered with that, I sell travel and thats why I am in the business. I do not go to sales presentations,etc.Could not be bothered. I sell travel, nothing else. Have not done any of the trips or perks people speak of. Not everyone is into selling travel for the wrong reasons. Shandelle, FL

Those of you who are affiliated with YTB who are serious about being a travel agent for the right reasons and want to genuinely learn the ropes and attend learning conferences, etc. and "can't be bothered" with the sales gimmicks and signing up others---then why not affiliate yourself with a host agency that has a clean reputation without the stigma of YTB so you don't have to endure the questions and the hassle? What could possibly be in it for you if you don't want to participate in the MLM scheme? YTB is an MLM model and its primary purpose is to recruit, not on customer service. Those of you who are serious about being travel agents need to abandon that sinking ship and go out on your own as an IC or employee with a reputable travel agency. With the emphasis on reputable. I applaud NCL for having the guts to do what needs to be done by ALL suppliers. Tina, TN

Tina makes great points. How effective of an agent are you if you are not accredited by IATAN. If you cannot sell any Royal Caribbean brands, if you cannot sell NCL, if you cannot sell several other suppliers.

There are literally tens of thousands of non or minimally producing agencies in the US that are able to sell NCL at the base commission. The YTB crowd needs to ask why NCL TERMINATED YTB and has refused to accept bookings. It sounds a little more involved than just a reduction in commission for non-productivity to me.

Again, why are you happy with a 60% or 70% split when all you do is sell travel and there are so many more hosts that offer 80% and above and are respected in the industry? Is it the allure of being able to sell meat, pocketbooks, candy, lotions, and other crap on your websites?John, MD

YTB is a travel industry farce and I applaud NCL et al for refusing to do business with them. Congratulations to Denyse and others who have moved to legitimate hosts whose primary focus is on the selling of travel instead of recruiting anything that breathes to be a 'travel agent'. I look forward to YTBs exit from this industry. Cassie, AZ

I applaud NCL for taking a stand against these card mills. Anyone selling travel should have to meet some minimum training requirements. It's great to see Globus, NCL and others doing their part to help salvage the integrity of the industry. Laura, OH

I read all the responses on the board. I'm not even an agent but I’m aware of YTB and other companies setup under this model it’s more coming, one thing that I noticed is that the old office agents are threaten by the YTB model. I hate to rain on their parade but you need to think about another issue that will threaten your existence. THE INTERNET ITSELF WILL CHANGE THE INDUSTRY. What’s strange is that their fine with Travelocity and Expedia, who I think now have host services. It’s nothing more than a person with deep pockets passing all the qualifications to sell travel, slapping a call center to answer the phones, and the customer selects from all the inventory. If the customer wants to speak to an agent they can. The difference they spend millions in advertising and YTB doesn’t but use the revenue from building teams with the reps that brought them into the business. Yes a high number of people don’t sell a lot of travel but they can loss people that do not take cruises, book hotels (time share or property there) it’s no money for flights. Then they would have to market like real business people. Then it might be a problem with the structure from a legal stand point, but the difference between legal and illegal is if someone paid to get it legalized. The internet will eliminate going to an office to book travel, face it. What office agents or certified agents don’t agree with is more people getting into YTB and losing them as a customer, they received the perks and they had to earn them and the fact they receive additional money on top of travel booking commission for bring people into the business. Now to all agents start getting a problem with Travelocity and Expedia too! More people are shopping online what makes travel any different? Comparison shopping is easy from the comfort of a home or office. You can find the best deal. I’ve been booking my travel like this for years and the pricing changes by the minute. So when you’re sitting at the agent desk, you might have received a better deal minutes before you were seen. Here’s a question what if YTB takes Travelocity or Expedia’s approach, they already started eating your market share. Will you then have a problem with them. The problem is not YTB; the gripe is with the computer and internet. What they still need to really think about is what if Apple or the agency goes to an online model only; saving employee pay, leasing payments, and supplying equipment spending only money on the website infrastructure. Anyone working needs to adjust their thinking; start at the business top on downward, business is ran by how much money does it cost to run with people; what’s the profit margin with and without. What’s the benefit to having people in an office where no one might not visit all day. Keep watching the market share or Expedia and Travelocity. Agents are also fine going to work for Apple or any other Travel Agency. If the same training is provided, same trips, same everything what's the issue. Notice I said if. I see the American way, competition. Note: a person can get a job at any agency and be trained like any other job (did it at a friends parent agency) but the minute the MLM portion is put in place where a regular old Joe would make additional money than that certified agent and they receive some of their customers and perks, ITS A PROBLEM. I may agree because you worked for those perks. Oh I forgot this, that person would book their own trip instead of going to that agent, so the agent loss money. Yeah if I was an agent I would be upset. This is America, why did the offices not respond by showing value in doing business with them and their agents. Some of the agents I know that’s still in the business, work for their selves and have an online site for people to book their trips. You don’t need a host in this case, you need training, knowledge, accreditation, and certification. Now other companies are going to pop-up, maybe not with the same exact model as YTB but they’re going to adjust so be prepared. Royal Caribbean partnered with Magic Johnson’s Travel Group – same home based model and philosophy of providing travel services to friends and family, different method of executing – franchise model. Very expensive and the ROI is not there. You don’t hear a word on that because their apart of the process. I even think they invested too. You do not receive those FAM Trips that agents work hard for and that’s the other real issue with YTB. Too many people getting discounted trips. Notice how the agents say “card mills”. They do not get upset at the franchising because it’s expensive and the numbers that showed up for YTB will not appear for a franchising investment. For the YTB agents that got into the business for making additional money, go to another business industry that has more unique products and doesn’t have all the competition of an old model, it’s not worth it, commission wise it’s no real money in it and that’s why people that do this for a living is upset. It’s nice for bulk bookings but look at it this way, a person is only going to take a trip once or twice a year. Get something that’s going to be purchased repeatedly even during bad times when people are not going to spend money on a vacation. Example: 1 million people may take 1 vacation a year but 1 million people will purchase a product on a monthly basis. Travel can be scrutinized that a customer will pick the cheapest person but a product that’s unique, it’s no one else to select from. Pay scale researched showed for a travel agent these numbers $29,215.00 to $39,339.00. Not including bonuses. I’m not sure how accurate this is but it was conducted by payscale.com. Let the people make a living. It’s a profession and I took all training and became certified many moon ago while I was in school but it’s not like studying law or becoming a doctor. It’s simply knowing what you’re selling. Certified just means the company that provides the service is comfortable and knows that you are familiar with their product. Companies normally find a way to leverage this and make a profit on that certification. Its good companies that are setup under the Network Marketing model like insurance agencies and agents, real estate offices and agents, Avon, Mary Kay and a host of others. Going to a free travel service like Outside Agents is good but remember if you want to make money in hard times, combine it with another option since it’s free. If you really have a passion for selling travel, you don’t necessary need a host, if you took the CLIA exam, was that exam hard? No. Get fully trained don’t work for someone else when you can do it for yourself. Go get a job for little to no money at the agency. If you have a customer base, you have a good start. Just 20 years ago it use to be more travel agencies available, now most of them have closed because the cost associated to run them and the earnings are not rewarding anymore. Now that is a dying industry going through a shift. I know their trying to hold on, but face it again. Change happens because of technology and if the people in that field can’t see it, they will get sweep away. Wake-up now. Get your Plan B in place. This industry is going to have a battle over the next few year, good luck to all the agents that do this for a living. . S, PA

S, PA....is English a second language for you? I had a nearly impossible time trying to understand what you are saying.

I think you said that the Internet will change a lot of things. Well, wake up, it already has and this industry has embraced it.

I think you said there will be many more YTB's to come along. Well I for one, hope not and will do what I can to fend them off. You are aware of the legal troubles YTB is currently facing, correct?

You tell the agents to get ready. If there ever was an industry prepared for change, this one is it. We have been left for dead so many times, I should have been in the funeral business. We know how to adapt to change and make money while doing it. Agencies today are making more money than they ever did when airlines were paying commissions. Granted, this economy sucks and is a challenge, but we will persevere.

You say you are not an agent or with YTB (again, I think I caught that), yet you seem pretty knowledgeable about the industry. Maybe you can explain why NCL and RCCL decided to TERMINATE YTB rather than just take whatever sales they could at a reduced commission. Most agencies in the US are underperformers for many cruise lines. But they can still sell them. Right now, there are three major cruiseline groups in the mass market--NCL, RCCL, and CCC. YTB is not allowed to sell 2/3 of the mass market cruise lines. It is not a question of them selling for a less than desired commission level, but they are not allowed to sell them. How does one explain that. And I wonder when YTB will decide to announce this to the people in the field that may be attempting to sell travel!John, MD

Perhaps "S" would also like to explain why travel booked on the Internet has actually DECREASED for the last two years instead of increased? Perhaps people have realized that their time is worth something, that the travel agent's KNOWLEDGE (there we go bringing up that training thing again, huh?) is worth something, and that all of the choices that are out there are overwhelming to someone who doesn't know enough to be able to narrow down the options to fit the client. In order to do that you have to be a travel consultant, not an order taker. And you have to be human. Not a computer. Tina, TN

Well I hate to rain on "s"'s parade, but us "old agents" really laugh at you fools that book on the internet sites instead of consulting with a professional travel agent, that has likely toured every hotel in the destination your interested. Why would you want to rely on a picture on the internet when you can speak to a professional that has been there? People call me everyday that are exhausted from trying to sort through all the choices. In less than 30 minutes, I can have them matched up with a resort that will match their vacation needs. We really aren't worried about how many people are searching on the internet, because most end up at our desk anyways. The people that don't, are own there own when they have a problem. Travel agencies have relationships with the cruiselines and tour operators. If something goes wrong, we are there to back you up, at the same or lower price you would have found on the internet. Yep, I travel at reduced prices, but work for these perks. I can always tell a YTB rep on the FAM trips I take, and they are not welcomed into our profession as they are not real travel agents. Good thing CPA's need licenses or everyone that thinks they can make a buck would try and say they can do you taxes. Why would anyone trust an online site to handle an expensive vacation when they can work with a real travel agent either in person, email, or phone to get exactly what they are looking for? I applaud NCL for taking a stance to legitimize travel professionals once again. Get rid of the bottom feeders. They make us all look bad and cost the tour industry money since they are mostly booking their own travel.Sherri, TX

Those of you who speak badly of YTB have no idea what you're talking about. The internet and YTB is here to stay, you might as well accept it. Why don't you pick on Expedia and Orbitz too, think of all the people that book their own travel on there. Face it, the old fashioned way of booking travel is going extinct! Blame the internet, blame yourself for not changing with the times, it has nothing to do with YTB selling travel. You're just jealous and jealousy gets you nowhere! Linda, FLLinda , FL

The established Host Agencies all have some sort of fee structure. There is no such thing as a 'free lunch' The Cruise.com affiliate program has an annual fee and booking fee attached per invoice but is is small compared to the 100% they pay on each and every invoice and the commissions top out at the highest percentages in the industry today. They have alos been around for about 13 yearsRandy, FL

The established Host Agencies all have some sort of fee structure. There is no such thing as a 'free lunch' The Cruise.com affiliate program has an annual fee and booking fee attached per invoice but is is small compared to the 100% they pay on each and every invoice and the commissions top out at the highest percentages in the industry today. They have alos been around for about 13 yearsRandy, FL

www.urbancitytravel.com is the bomb website the graphics or worth alone if you had someone build your website would be over $5,000 dollars I know I do websites. For a little fee of $500 that is one time. And people do work to maintain the website because it is fabulous they have to get paid too. Nothing is free learn that but if you worried about the start up fee don't do it. You decide what you want to do for a living. I love my YTB website it is great for the money and no hard work for me to maintain it. Maybe your host agency should put some effort into your website. People are drawn to our website you cannot deny that take a look. I gave you the web address just look at it and see for yourself. danielle, MD

And as far as NCL goes that is there loss. Who turns down money anyway. A Fool. As long as the cabins are paid for and book you are happy because that is the goal. Obviously whomever is in charge is nuts. And I just don't do carnival either. That why their stock is down too. Bad decision. Word of Mouth is the best advertising. And we have over a 100,000 and counting words of mouth. Bad move very bad on their part. But hey life goes on and someone else will get the money. Because that what you work for the money and the commission. That is my job to make myself money. So if I can market YTB to others so they can have what I have and the checks keep coming I will never stop accepting money because I am no fool and my bank account looks good.danielle, MD

What are the names of the other agencies that you can move to?Deborah, NJ

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